By Black Agenda Report
The following has been edited from an AI generated transcript of the interview.
Good day and thank you for joining Black Agenda Report. I’m Margaret Kimberly.
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MK: Our guest is Abayomi Azikiwe, editor of the Pan-African News Wire. He’s been a Black Agenda Report guest many times for his expert analysis on African nations.
But I Abayomi is also a Michigander, a Michigan resident and he’s in Detroit and he’s also been a local activist for many years and I reached out to talk to him about politics in that state as Dr. Abdul El-Sayed won the Democratic primary for a Senate seat defeating the establishment choice Haley Stevens. This is part of a larger trend of insurgent, more left-leaning candidates defeating Democrats who have party endorsements and large campaign war chests. Why did Dr. El-Sayed win? Abayomi Azikiwe will provide us with this local analysis.
Thank you so much for joining me.
AA: Thank you once again for the invitation. This has been a very, very contested election. What we’ve seen for example in New York State first with the election of the current mayor there, Mamdani, whose father in fact I was studying his work, scholarly work, way back in the 1980s, 1990s – Dr. Makmoud Mamdani. He’s a Marxist Ugandan social scientist. He taught at the University of Dar es Salaam. So that gives you some background information in regard to the social context in which your mayor came out of, kind of came out of, but this is a pattern that’s been happening across the United States.
It appears to be an electoral insurgency inside the Democratic Party. A response to the pro-Israeli, pro-imperialist, pro-war themes that have permeated the Democratic Party for many years. So the professor and doctor also was of course an insurgent candidate. He had, some say, 60 to 70 million dollars spent to try to destroy his campaign. There were constant television commercials, constant social media posts. I received so many letters as a registered voter in the city of Detroit.
I received all these posts and kicker cards denouncing him, saying he had disrespected the former first lady Michelle Obama, saying that she was ineffective in terms of her role as first lady. They also said that he had insulted women on the job and so forth. And there were many women in his campaign who supported him. Then they went into the whole accusation that he’s anti-semitic. He’s sympathetic to “terrorists“.
So, all of this has been going on now for months. And Haley Stevens, who is in the US Congress, she was trying to step up the political ladder by running for Senate, but she’s heavily endorsed and funded by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. And she made no secret about it. to the point where on Mayday in Detroit at Roosevelt Park, she was literally run out of the park by people and it was the Jewish Voice for Peace. Now, I didn’t see this. This is what I just heard, JVP was adamant that she should not be allowed to speak at Mayday in Detroit. So this is a big shift politically in terms of the labor unions which endorsed his candidacy as well as others who came out as Jewish Americans. So it’s been a very interesting week.
MK: Well, yes, to say the least. Why do you think these charges, by the way, did he insult Michelle Obama? Is there any truth to that? No, I don’t think so. And you know, he said she was ineffective. Well, a lot of people would say that.
AA: Well, you know, the comments she made about African-American girls, you know, that they should eat better and all this kind of stuff. Well, give people money. To eat healthy in the United States takes money, you know. I mean, to eat unhealthy is cheaper.
MK: Yes, it is. [laughter] I didn’t want to digress, but it’s so interesting how we see the same playbook where a social media post or a comment is elevated as if it’s a political statement in order to discredit someone. Yes. Why do you think he ended up being the more attractive despite the attacks, despite the fact that Haley Stevens, his opponent, had so much more money? Why do you think he ended up winning?
AA: I think that particularly among young people attitudes are changing. That even now you know a labor organization such as the UAW [United Auto Workers] which in the past would never say even a whisper against the foreign policies of the United States particularly the domestic policies and foreign policies of the state of Israel. They just did not touch it. And way back in 1973 there was a picket line and a strike that united mainly Yemen and other Arab American workers with African-American workers and they had a one-day strike and they also picketed a UAW event where the previous head, Leonard Woodcock, was being awarded, I believe, by one of the leading Jewish organizations.
So this is the attitude that is changing. Now what they also attempted to do was to divide the African-American electorate against those who supported the Doctor. And this among the older voters had some impact. But the reality is in the city of Detroit which is overwhelmingly a African-American predominant city only 20 to 23% of the people who are registered to vote came out on Tuesday. And this is typical in a city that’s been impoverished that’s been a victim of globalization and privatization for decades. So most of the people who come out to vote are older people, people over 50, 60, 70 years old. They have a greater tendency to come out to vote. But among younger African-Americans it was in favor of El-Sayed. So, it shows that there’s a generational debate or divide that’s going on and,, it’s cutting across, I think, racial lines.
MK: Yes, we we’ve seen this pattern. You mentioned Mamdani’s mayoral election. Some primaries here in New York City with candidates he’s backed in other parts of the country. But there’s, I think, a bigger thing going on and I think the Democratic Party is losing legitimacy very rapidly. Why do you think that’s true?
AA: Yeah, they definitely have an identity crisis so to speak and a political ideological crisis and we saw what happened for example in St. Louis where Cori Bush lost, you know, to Wesley Bell and they wanted to do the same thing here in terms of the Democratic senatorial race as well as the race for the 13th District of the US Congress. They have South Asian American Shri Thanedar who won twice. He stepped into a political vacuum here in the city of Detroit. Detroit now only has one congressional district because of the population loss and the domination of right-wing elements in the state legislature who have redrawn districts. There has been some push back against that but Shri had also been a recipient. People in Palestine arose and he refused to even call for a ceasefire. You know, I was at a demonstration called by the Jewish Voice for Peace outside his office in downtown Detroit, and they said he wasn’t there. They sent out some aides who said that he was for a humanitarian pause in the fighting, but he had issued a statement saying that the Egyptian government should open its borders at the Rafa crossing to allow the Palestinians to cross out of their own country into Egypt. You know this is absolutely outrageous. So I think this unconditional support for the Israeli government for US foreign policy towards West Asia and North Africa is starting to backfire on the Democratic party and the Republican party.
I found it interesting that even people like Tucker Carlson, for example, who have been, you know, staunch right-wing propagandists are now questioning the state of Israel, you know, for the wrong reasons, of course, but this does cause some consternation. Candace Owens, for example, I’ve read comments from her, you know, questioning the policies of the Israeli government. I don’t know what this is really about and what direction it’s going. But it shows a crack in this unconditional support for the Israeli government and particularly within the African-American community.
People like Hakeim Jeffries, for example, who’s the minority chair of the Democratic caucus in the House of Representatives, is a staunch supporter of Israel. He’s a staunch supporter of the Ukraine government which has fascist elements within it. So how long can this be sustained politically? That what I’m thinking at this point.
MK: Well, Hakeim Jeffrey I mean that’s how you get that position, right? That’s why he’s House minority leader. You have to be vetted and Israel is one of the top issues for the Democratic party establishment. I mean, so much so that Haley Stevens in the Michigan race in remarks even said she dreamed about Israel. I mean, I guess perhaps she was being honest and [laughter] thinking that that support and all that money from Zionist donors would get her across the finish line.
But but Cori Bush, she actually lost again. She tried to run against Wesley Bell and unfortunately was defeated. But I want to talk to you about Michigan itself. Michigan is one of the so-called rust belt states where the deindustrialization devastated the economy for decades now for a long time. You mentioned the loss of population and so people are concerned about, I actually don’t like the term, the bread-and-butter issues. The economic issues that impact people in their daily lives and no one in the political establishment is speaking to them. I remember in 2024 the Democrats would always say if people said we’re struggling, they’d say, “No, you’re not. The economic indicators are good.” And the disappearance, some of those COVID programs that helped so many people just disappeared without a whimper from the Biden administration. So, I think it’s an issue that I don’t think is discussed enough, but I imagine that played a part in the outcome of this primary race.
AA: Most definitely. and it reminds me of the neocon economics that was being taught in the universities even in the 1970s about the so-called dilemma between guns and butter in terms of economic policy. So the Democrats believe they could have both guns and butter and it’s just not working out. And Trump, you know, it’s quite interesting reports that have come out even in the Financial Times newspaper that they’re running out of long range missiles that they didn’t even plan for this current aggressive campaign that they’re waging and they’ve had to institute a pause against bombing Iran. Plus, it’s backfired once again on them. People in this country cannot afford to buy food. They can’t afford to put gasoline in their cars. The rents are going up. Education costs and fees are escalating.
These are the issues that people are concerned about. And the Republican party, their position is that there’s nothing wrong with the economy. Everything is fine. So, that’s going to be a major issue in the general elections. Mike Rogers, you know, who is a Trump supporter who has been endorsed by Trump, is going to run to win the gubernatorial position in November. So, we’ll see. It’s been a while since the Republicans have been in office. Rick Snyder, he was the one that instituted the emergency management laws and poisoned the water in Flint and engineered massive water shut offs in Detroit. So I don’t think people want to go back to the period of Rick Snyder.
MK: You know you mentioned the current attorney general Nessel correct?
AA: Yeah she’s the attorney general, yes
MK: Who let the Flint water poisoners off scot-free. She claims she was afraid because she’s Jewish and she’s afraid of protest so she wasn’t going to show up for a public event. But she has other reasons to be concerned. One of which I mentioned was how she handled or didn’t handle Flint and the water being contaminated. How does that issue still resonate with voters in Michigan?
AA: It does. And the people in Flint still have not been made whole. There are people who have died as a result of what they did to the people in Flint, the majority of whom are Black people. And nobody was ever held accountable on a criminal level. The former governor, Rick Snyder, you know, that he was only charged with a misdemeanor and that was even dismissed. So they can engage in poisoning literally tens of thousands of people and there’s no recrimination you know in terms of there’s no response from the criminal justice system. Yet you have people in state detention facilities, immigration facilities.
Here at North Lake in the state of Michigan five women have died in detention at the Huron Valley Women’s Prison. It’s the only prison in the state of Michigan that houses women and the conditions there are deplorable.
So this is what’s going on in the United States at this time. It’s not just against migrants. These women who are in Huron Valley are considered US citizens and yet they’re being treated in a horrible fashion.
MK:Well, you know citizenship rights for, I’m assuming they’re Black. Were the women who died Black?
AA: Some were white and some were Black.
MK: Yeah. So, I was going to say our citizenship rights don’t mean a lot, especially for Black people. But the whole issue of mass incarceration and people being incarcerated for minor offenses. 2 million people. More people behind bars than any other country in the world is an issue that is obviously not discussed enough. But I wanted to ask you about El Sayed and he was always, whenever he was interviewed, he was asked about do you hate Jews? Do you hate Israel? Does Israel have a right to exist? And he very deftly answered those questions. He said do you think Palestine has a right to exist? Do you think those people have a right to live? And it was a reflection of the mood of the country which has turned against a genocide, turned against even as people here are struggling, that millions of dollars are, billions are going to a country which is carrying out acts that most people just find ,there’s just revulsion ,about Israel’s action. And you mentioned the fact the US doesn’t have as many missiles as it thought it needed and that’s because of Ukraine since 2022.
So there are these contradictions for the system but it all boils down to people who are angry about their situation and are willing to take a chance and do something different. Except for Black people, and you touched on this, older Black voters sticking with Democratic establishment figures while younger people are willing to take a chance to have something new. And it concerns me, and this is something that we see across the country. When Mandani first ran in the primary, he did not get most Black votes. He did in the general election, however. Back voters I think tend to be risk averse.
And as you said, it’s older people who tend to vote more, but I have many different opinions about electoral politics and what it can and can’t do for us, but most of our people are still active in electoral politics. But it concerns me that Black people will, as Glenn Ford used to say, be the last ones off the sinking ship. And he, I believe, has been proven right. I think I may have rambled there, but what are your thoughts about what I said?
AA: Yes. I see electoral politics as an element, you know, of a broader struggle towards liberation and social emancipation. And that is a tactic just like a mass demonstration or a boycott, you know, or doing alternative media. It is not the entire breadth and depth, you know, of what needs to be done at this point in the United States. But emphasizing these questions, I believe, does illustrate the character of national oppression and economic exploitation in the United States. I mean, the fact that they’re willing to go back 60 years or more in repealing key elements of the Voting Rights Act shows that it was never secure and that something deeper has to be achieved and won and implemented to guarantee the continuance of even elemental bourgeois democratic rights like the right to vote, the right to have due process under the law. Otherwise, you go back to the uh Dred Scott decision of 1857 that we have no rights that a white man is bound to respect. So I think that’s the attitude of this administration and you know people have to do something to stave off that level of repression and, you know, not even recognizing African people as being human.
MK: You mentioned the Voting Rights Act and I’m sure you’re familiar with Kamala Harris’s comments about it. I wrote about it this week and she was asked at the National Urban League (it should have been a softball question I think) about the Voting Rights Act which as you pointed out the enforcement provisions have been gutted and she was very nonchalant about it. She said well I don’t think that should be our priority. This administration isn’t going to do it. Congress isn’t going to do it. But I think she let the cat out of the bag. I think it’s not a priority for the Democratic Party establishment, which wants and needs Black people’s votes, but will not stand up to protect our rights. What are your thoughts about that?
AA: Yes. And there has to be a realignment. I mean, we can prefigure that, you know, or see the prefigurement of it in some of these recent electoral campaigns involving the Democratic Party. The fact that in Detroit they’re claiming that 60% of the people in Detroit voted for Haley Stevens in the primary and 40% voted for El-Sayed. So I’m thinking if that’s the case in consideration but at the same time they’re saying they don’t have accurate data so far in terms of exit polls. You know, they haven’t sifted through all the information as of yet, but these appear to be estimates, but even if it’s true, for example, the fact that 40% of the electorate could be peeled away, you know, from the pro-Israeli Democratic establishment position, pro-war positions, you know, that encompass Islamophobia, and other, you know, racist attitudes. So, I’m thinking that shows that there’s a limitation to what they’re doing because you know, you have to be here to see the constant commercials saying every horrible thing about him. You know, they threw everything at him. And also, Donovan McKenna won the 13th district. He’s African-American and he’s I think he’s part of the Democratic Socialist of America. And there were other DSA candidates that won as well around the state. The mayor of Ann Arbor. So, you know, hopefully it’ll have a direct impact on people.
MK: And lastly, before we close, I’m never sad when someone defies AIPAC and wins. I’m always happy to see that happen. But El-Sayed, he has fallen into this trap of a lot of left Democrats in being right-wing on foreign policy. He said he still supports Ukraine. He said after they kidnapped President Maduro in Venezuela that he was a thug. This is something that has to stop. Mamdani did something similar talking about Cuba and Venezuela when he was running and we can’t just give folks a pass if they are on the correct side about Israel or domestic policy. What are your thoughts about that?
AA: Yeah, that has to be called out because I remember when uh Bernie Sanders was running in 2020, in one of the debates they asked him about the character of the socialism he was advocating and he said, well, he wasn’t advocating the socialism that they have in Cuba. He was talking about the socialism really in the imperialist countries, you know, in Scandinavian countries where they have national health insurance and so forth. He mentioned the UK. But that’s such a contradiction, you know that the socialism that has come out of the oppressed nations he doesn’t support so they’re going to have to clear that up because it’s going to collapse just like the pro Israeli positions have collapsed.
MK: Yes they will and the Scandinavian countries are firmly with the US actually undermining their social programs that everybody brags about all the time. They’re undoing them.
AA: Yeah, he needs to, you know, follow what’s going on in England. The National Health Service has serious problems. They had strikes among the junior doctors, the consultants, nurses, they’re not investing enough in healthcare. And now the US is demanding that they spend more on military equipment. So it’s going to be a serious problem. And Ukraine, they have run out of these defensive missiles. So the reports from like the BBC and Sky News today is that the damage from these drones and missiles being launched by the Russian Federation are doing extensively more damage because they don’t have supplies. They’ve been asking for Patriot missiles as everybody recalls and they still have not gotten them.
MK: Well, I thank you so much. I’ll have you back. It’s our first non-Africa discussion. [laughter] And we know that folks should go to Pan-African News Wire to see your work there. Is there anyone you can suggest or organizations that folks can follow in Michigan to follow this uh election and other news?
AA: Yeah, you could check out the Moratorium Now Coalition, you could follow their Facebook page. There’s also the local organizations even the local DSA chapter here has you know probably a thousand members and they’re doing a lot. You can check their websites, their social media sites. There are many grassroots organizations as well as uh nonprofit organizations.
They’re going to be working around this election. I think this was key in the primary election because you just can’t throw money at people today and expect a significant number of them to respond. So they have people on the ground knocking on doors doing social media posts, holding meetings with community organizations, going to cultural events and so forth and that could outstrip television ads every five minutes and people just turn you off.
MK: Well, that’s real democracy. You just described organizing which is what democracy is supposed to be about, not just having fake elections that are predetermined because somebody has more money than someone else. So this is what many of us have wanted to see and it’s I believe very good news. Thank you so much Abayomi, it was nice having you back.
AA: Thank you.
